That works if everyone is on the same playing field and agrees to the rules. It usually doesn’t work that way in real life.

When it comes to my safety or that of my loved ones, I will use any tool or weapon to ensure I come out on top.

*Fair fights are for the ring.

*Never bring a knife to a gun fight.

But then, I am a dinosaur in a modern world.

McGuire’s sentence was suspended as long as he does not break the law. No fines were imposed, but he can not attend this years rally.
-mac

The flip side if that is this simple truth: this is the USA and there is nothing that gives a 1%er the right to challenge someone for what they’re wearing. It is laughable that a group of cops should go to a group of self-described outlaws and ask for “permission” to wear a patch. The idea of these “rules” is so ingrained in the outlaw culture that they actually believe that they have the right to enforce them. They don’t.

As dumb as I think it is to emulate outlaws, they had every right to sit in a bar and enjoy the rally without getting challenged over the club they belonged to, if that’s what happened.

Federal firearms act cannot be used in case

By Journal staff Friday, August 29, 2008

The Meade county grand jury that indicted a Seattle police officer for
bringing a gun into a Sturgis bar in the early morning hours of Aug. 9 could
not have used the federal Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004 to
exonerate him, a spokeswoman for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms
and Explosives said Thursday.

Congress passed that law in the wake of the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11,
2001, to exempt qualified law enforcement officers from state laws that
prohibit the carrying of a concealed weapon. But because the legislation was
never implemented by its rule-making agency – the U.S. Attorney General’s
office — the Meade County grand jury could not have used it in any case to
defend the actions of Seattle policeman Ronald Smith, according to Carrie
DiPirro, public information officer in the Denver office of the Bureau of
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Nowhere in America would that act
have been considered by a grand jury, DiPirro said.

“The act was passed, but it’s never been enforced by the Attorney General’s
office,” she said. Congress directed the U.S. Attorney General’s office to
meet the conditions for its implementation – such as establishing the
necessary databases and identifications — something which DiPirro said
apparently has never been done.

The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act amended the federal criminal code to
authorize qualified law enforcement officers (including certain qualified
retired officers) carrying the photographic identification issued by their
governmental agency, notwithstanding state or local laws, to carry a
concealed firearm. That authorization is not intended to supersede state
laws that permit private entities to prohibit the possession of concealed
firearms on their property, or prohibit the possession of firearms on state
or local government property. The law also would not cover any officer under
the influence of alcohol and it excludes from the definition of “firearm”
any machine gun, firearm silencer, or destructive device.

Smith and four other men were charged on two alternative concealed weapon
permit violations. According to the South Dakota Secretary of State’s Web
site, Washington and South Dakota do not have reciprocity of concealed
weapons permits, but Attorney General Larry Long said Thursday he could not
immediately confirm that.

“We’re not sure if Washington is or not,” Long said.

The grand jury issued alternative concealed weapon permit indictments for
Smith and the others. The men could be convicted of carrying a concealed
pistol without permit or failing to abide by a permit of a reciprocal state,
but not both counts, Long said.
http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/arti…d898298826.txt

As far as sanctioninig goes- you will find that without exception many of the non-leo clubs belong to various coalitions. The coalition of clubs in our area will not allow membership of anyone who has arrest powers- hence there is usually no opportunity to mediate disputes on that level with any group who may have an issue with us. These coalitions are strong groups that also work on lobby efforts, legal defense etc.

Obviously it would have been better to avoid the conflict. At some point the exchange escalated. Should the IP have walked away? No probably not. It would likely only have made things worse for the next IP that was encountered. This guy was off duty- was he required to be “professional” as you indicated- and should he have walked away. He was challenged and shit went south. I’m glad that neither he nor anyone else were hurt any worse than they were. As for his comrades- from the news accounts I have read they too took action- holding the others off until the locals could get there- which I understand was only moments due to the fact they had been summoned by management already.

Sometimes you can’t just walk away. Why- knowing that the IPs are an LEO Club- would anyone have chosen to pick shit with them? You have to assume that they are armed and they if need be they are trained, likely would not back down and would take some form of action- especially if jumped on. I certainly would not go up to an 81 and start a fracas. Why? What purpose does it serve?

I personally don’t believe in nor do I see a need for posing at any level. I enjoy the ride and the company of the guys I ride with. I can hold my mud. Take care, ride safe, respect one another.

Kathy
Unfortunately for all of us federal law outranks state law. a few years back Bush signed a law says cops can carry anywhere anytime on duty or off, even in a bar, as long as they are not intoxicated. Be interesting to see what this guys BAC was at the time. and Yea, gonna be a big broom used on this one.

Mac, lets talk about the cop being suspended once for intimidation and having a reprimand another time for taunting people, common, they both have two strikes, in hand to hand combat only a coward pulls a gun.

Scrape, the officer himself said that this prospect started an argument with him. I thought you guys were trained to avoid arguments. and, it takes two to argue. Being the professional shouldn’t Smith have just taken the opportunity for him and his buddies to walk away? The IPMC websites are very very challenging, “cut one we all bleed” that is stolen from a major club. How about “challenge one you challenge a national brotherhood” Or my favorite, “we will always be a three piece club, we don’t ask permission” Yea, so much for live and let live. He had the chance to be professional and not argue and walk away, he chose a different path.

and Scrape again: you said, “The mentality that exists in some is that cops have no business riding bikes for recreation, joining clubs or going into “their” bars- please!

nobody said they can’t ride bikes, and if they want to join a club thats fine, they are not joining clubs they are making clubs up, and they are not following the long established rules for starting a club by getting permission. It is by their own mouth on their websites that the thumb their nose at long established protocol and issue very challenging sounding statements. If they want to start clubs fine, let them be sanctioned same as every other club in America. If they hold themselves separate and “better than everyone” their going to get treated different by the whole community.

Widomaker…..lol, couldn’t have said it better. Yep

Cribs, HA are an MC gang? well which is it, MC or gang? and, if you look at IPMC website, they make the statment “challenge one you challenge a national brotherood” so, I guess we can consider them as dangerous as anyone else.

joemamma, nobody is trying to sweep custer under the rug. But, that is club business between two clubs, and you don’t hear either of them whinning or cry babying about it do you? However, when you have cops that want to throw on a three piece patch and create very challenging websites in the tone of outlaws, they are going to get treated the same. If they want to be part of the biker life they have to play by the biker rules, and if they can’t hold their mud, perhaps another hobby is in order. One has to wonder though what Smiths buddies were doing, they certainly didn’t live up to the “challenge one you challenge a national brotherhood” as stated on their website, or the “cut one we all bleed” good thing it wasn’t hit one we all shoot huh?